Slide width for small bore bones
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Slide width for small bore bones
I find narrow slides kind of annoying, even on small bore horns. My 79h has a wide slide, and I like that. I went to the length of putting a wide crook on a 10h slide, loved that arrangement and for some reason lost my mind and sold it.
I'm just wondering what are the 508/500 bore horns with wider slides? Are Bachs wider than Conns? What about the 100h?
I'm just wondering what are the 508/500 bore horns with wider slides? Are Bachs wider than Conns? What about the 100h?
-
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:11 pm
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Let me know when you find the answer... I also can't deal with narrow slides... I'd love a small bore with a wide slide.
Where did you get the wide crook for your 10H?
Where did you get the wide crook for your 10H?
- Matt K
- Verified
- Posts: 4240
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I'm actually curious myself, I don't have much experience with the smaller horns. Would love to put a wider, 508ish crook in nickel on my 356.
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:51 pm
- Location: New Albany, Ohio
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Now that's a dimension that should be readily available from both the manufacturer as well as the dealer. Most of the information available is more marketing fluff than actual objective data. Sorry to interject....
Dave
2020ish? Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
2020ish? Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I got the "wide glide* crook from DJ. It was meant for a 509, maybe the width of a 36b slide. It did change the sound a little - broader sound. I got the nickel silver, and it wasn't a single radius crook.
-
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:34 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I've been trying to find a wider crook for my Bolero for two years. I've contacted MK Drawing as well as other providers and no one makes one. I just don't get it..
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
According to Bellend, one of the Bessons appears to have a fairly wide slide. https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... ide#p17066
This question has come up before. DJ Kennedy is the only answer. When I bought the one I had, it was $65 I think, and there was a choice of yellow or nickel silver. Maybe rose as well, I don't remember.
Maybe we could team up and give him a good sized order if a few of us went together. I know I want one. Anyone else?
This question has come up before. DJ Kennedy is the only answer. When I bought the one I had, it was $65 I think, and there was a choice of yellow or nickel silver. Maybe rose as well, I don't remember.
Maybe we could team up and give him a good sized order if a few of us went together. I know I want one. Anyone else?
- tctb
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:12 am
- Location: UK
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I too have a problem with narrow slides . Would anyone be interested in compiling a list of various trombones and their slide width . Would it be better to measure the distance between the two outer slide tubes or the distance between the the two inner slide tubes?
Last edited by tctb on Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
If I had known trombones were this much fun , I would have got one sooner!
- Matt K
- Verified
- Posts: 4240
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I'd buy one if they were available, in nickelhyperbolica wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:12 am According to Bellend, one of the Bessons appears to have a fairly wide slide. https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... ide#p17066
This question has come up before. DJ Kennedy is the only answer. When I bought the one I had, it was $65 I think, and there was a choice of yellow or nickel silver. Maybe rose as well, I don't remember.
Maybe we could team up and give him a good sized order if a few of us went together. I know I want one. Anyone else?
-
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:11 pm
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Yes, I’d be interested in ordering one too.hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:12 am Maybe we could team up and give him a good sized order if a few of us went together. I know I want one. Anyone else?
- TheBoneRanger
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:55 pm
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I got mine through Benn Hansson. My early 16M came up a treat.
Andrew
Andrew
-
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:34 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I would buy one in nickel if available..
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
DJK said these crooks were made specifically for him, and that the tooling was somehow involved in the Kanstul situation. I contacted him on Facebook. Maybe if some others also do the same he'll chase down the tool andget a few made.
- Matt K
- Verified
- Posts: 4240
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I wonder if Butler would make something like that. Probably would be I'd imagine most techs aren't setup to install them!
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I'm currently waiting on a custom wide slide crook for a 16M that is being made at BAC in Kansas.
I've asked for a nickel silver 0.522" I.D. same as the original ( all recent small Bach's use the model 6 slide crook) with the signature tight radius at each end but at the width of a 36 slide.
Not sure how it's gonna come out but I'll keep you posted when I eventually get it.
The trouble is adding a longer length of tube in the crook can send things out of wack a bit..... fingers crossed!
BellEnd
I've asked for a nickel silver 0.522" I.D. same as the original ( all recent small Bach's use the model 6 slide crook) with the signature tight radius at each end but at the width of a 36 slide.
Not sure how it's gonna come out but I'll keep you posted when I eventually get it.
The trouble is adding a longer length of tube in the crook can send things out of wack a bit..... fingers crossed!
BellEnd
- tctb
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:12 am
- Location: UK
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Thanks for ignoring me as usual . I don't think there is any point in staying with this group!
If I had known trombones were this much fun , I would have got one sooner!
- BGuttman
- Posts: 6295
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Not ignoring you. Just haven't had a chance to measure my slides.
I think you need to describe what you consider "too narrow". A slide brace of about 2 1/2" length was considered pretty standard back in the 1930s.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Well, BAC bought Kanstul's stuff, I'd bet that the tooling used is the tooling DJ is talking about. Bellend, you wouldn't mind telling us how much you are paying for this crook, would you? I paid $65 for a crook that appears to be from the same tool 3 years ago from DJ.bellend wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:08 am I'm currently waiting on a custom wide slide crook for a 16M that is being made at BAC in Kansas.
I've asked for a nickel silver 0.522" I.D. same as the original ( all recent small Bach's use the model 6 slide crook) with the signature tight radius at each end but at the width of a 36 slide.
Not sure how it's gonna come out but I'll keep you posted when I eventually get it.
The trouble is adding a longer length of tube in the crook can send things out of wack a bit..... fingers crossed!
BellEnd
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:51 pm
- Location: New Albany, Ohio
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I'd be willing to compile a list of slide widths. Probably be good to measure inside to inside distance as well as outside to outside distance. I mean, if you're there already. I could list in fine English inches as well as metric. What's the best way to get the information, private message via trombonechat?
Dave
2020ish? Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
2020ish? Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
-
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:15 pm
- Location: Menlo Park
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Probably the easiest and most reproducible measurement is just the length of the inner slide brace from tube to tube. Add a tube diameter to that measurement if you really need center-on-center. Outside to Outside I don't see as that useful since that's just a function of inside spacing and slide tube OD--it's a derived value not a basic one. A ratio of slide width to slide length I think would be a more useful metric for anyone wanting to modify their horn, to preserve intonation.
I'll measure some slides when I get a chance-- have small bachs, kings, williams, medium/large edwards and yamahas currently. From memory though the Bachs = Kings = Williams (approx, all are close enough) << Yamaha YSL-641 < Edwards .525 and .547s.
I'll measure some slides when I get a chance-- have small bachs, kings, williams, medium/large edwards and yamahas currently. From memory though the Bachs = Kings = Williams (approx, all are close enough) << Yamaha YSL-641 < Edwards .525 and .547s.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 6295
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Here are some measurements. I measured the brace under the mouthpiece receiver. Measurements are in mm. Divide by 25.4 to get inches. I still have a couple to measure but they aren't here:
King 606: 70 mm
Conn Director 65 mm
Conn 40H (Ballroom, TIS): 75 mm
Martin Imperial: 70 mm (Committee is the same size)
Indiana Band Instrument (Martin) 70 mm
Bestler: 72 mm
Cecilio: 60 mm
Venus: 65 mm
I'll add more as I measure them.
Two more:
Holton Stratodyne (Model 67) 65 mm
Bach 36: 72 mm
Note: these are brace lengths. Center to center measurements will be larger.
King 606: 70 mm
Conn Director 65 mm
Conn 40H (Ballroom, TIS): 75 mm
Martin Imperial: 70 mm (Committee is the same size)
Indiana Band Instrument (Martin) 70 mm
Bestler: 72 mm
Cecilio: 60 mm
Venus: 65 mm
I'll add more as I measure them.
Two more:
Holton Stratodyne (Model 67) 65 mm
Bach 36: 72 mm
Note: these are brace lengths. Center to center measurements will be larger.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
-
- Posts: 1015
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 pm
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
So based on those numbers, We're looking at a width greater than 80mm?
Matthew Walker
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC, Jackson, Wisconsin.
Former Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC, Jackson, Wisconsin.
Former Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I measured as best I could some slide bows I have my vernier calipers are very old and might be a little bit out.
For me I need an I.D. of 80mm to comfortably get the mouthpiece on my chops.
I've copied and pasted this and the editor on here keeps bunching it all together hope it makes sense ?
Hand Slide Crook Dimension Chart
Model I.D. Crook Width I.D.
SelmerBolero 14.1mm /.555" 71.5mm/ 2.3/4"
16M 13.25 / .522" 68mm/ 2. 11/8"
Besson 941 13.3 / .520" 80mm/ 3 3/8"
Wide Glide 14mm / .551" 80.6mm/ 3 3/8"
BellEnd
For me I need an I.D. of 80mm to comfortably get the mouthpiece on my chops.
I've copied and pasted this and the editor on here keeps bunching it all together hope it makes sense ?
Hand Slide Crook Dimension Chart
Model I.D. Crook Width I.D.
SelmerBolero 14.1mm /.555" 71.5mm/ 2.3/4"
16M 13.25 / .522" 68mm/ 2. 11/8"
Besson 941 13.3 / .520" 80mm/ 3 3/8"
Wide Glide 14mm / .551" 80.6mm/ 3 3/8"
BellEnd
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Hi ,hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:18 amWell, BAC bought Kanstul's stuff, I'd bet that the tooling used is the tooling DJ is talking about. Bellend, you wouldn't mind telling us how much you are paying for this crook, would you? I paid $65 for a crook that appears to be from the same tool 3 years ago from DJ.bellend wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:08 am I'm currently waiting on a custom wide slide crook for a 16M that is being made at BAC in Kansas.
I've asked for a nickel silver 0.522" I.D. same as the original ( all recent small Bach's use the model 6 slide crook) with the signature tight radius at each end but at the width of a 36 slide.
Not sure how it's gonna come out but I'll keep you posted when I eventually get it.
The trouble is adding a longer length of tube in the crook can send things out of wack a bit..... fingers crossed!
BellEnd
I'm paying $355 which I know is a lot but this will be a custom one off piece which means fabricating a former to make the specific shape I'm after.
Fingers crossed.
BellEnd
-
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:34 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Measurements for a Bach 36 and Shires .525:
Bach 36: 81.27mm/ 3.2"
Shires .525: 79.1mm/3.12"
Bach 36: 81.27mm/ 3.2"
Shires .525: 79.1mm/3.12"
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Bellend, thanks for sharing that. Even Brass Ark stuff is less than that. Of course for custom profile, I can see why they charge a lot. I hope they don't severely change what was originally charged for these crooks, though, assuming DJ is talking about the stuff that BAC acquired.
About the width measurements:
I measured outer slide tube outer diameter (the Olds is dual bore) and the tube-to-tube distance at the crook ferrules to make sure I wasn't measuring extra thicknesses like the little pieces the handle braces are soldered to or the oversleeves.
model bore OD(mm) tube-to-tube (mm and inch)
Kanstul 1662i .562 15.91 89.18 3.51
Olds S20 .554/.565 16.21/16.03 89.20 3.51
79h .522 14.91 82.26 3.24
72h .562 15.93 81.66 3.21
Conn sl4747 .547 15.5 78.44 3.09
Conn sl2525 .525 14.83 78.75 3.10
Shires MD+ .509 14.39 71.6 2.82
Does anyone have a 30h? That is one of the narrowest slides, or at least one of the least comfortable slides to play, I've found.
I think compiling these on google docs would be the best, so everybody can edit it, like a wiki. Did the mods say this site has wiki capabilities?
About the width measurements:
I measured outer slide tube outer diameter (the Olds is dual bore) and the tube-to-tube distance at the crook ferrules to make sure I wasn't measuring extra thicknesses like the little pieces the handle braces are soldered to or the oversleeves.
model bore OD(mm) tube-to-tube (mm and inch)
Kanstul 1662i .562 15.91 89.18 3.51
Olds S20 .554/.565 16.21/16.03 89.20 3.51
79h .522 14.91 82.26 3.24
72h .562 15.93 81.66 3.21
Conn sl4747 .547 15.5 78.44 3.09
Conn sl2525 .525 14.83 78.75 3.10
Shires MD+ .509 14.39 71.6 2.82
I'd like to see something about the width of my 79h, so the inside tube-to-tube dimension for that is ~82mm.hornbuilder wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:58 pm So based on those numbers, We're looking at a width greater than 80mm?
Does anyone have a 30h? That is one of the narrowest slides, or at least one of the least comfortable slides to play, I've found.
I think compiling these on google docs would be the best, so everybody can edit it, like a wiki. Did the mods say this site has wiki capabilities?
Last edited by hyperbolica on Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:51 pm
- Location: New Albany, Ohio
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Thanks for those who have supplied measurements. The title reads "small bore bones" and I've gotten measurements for large bore as well. I'll include all I receive and post as I get an accumulation worth mentioning.
Again, I'll take any bore size slide measurements and hopefully this will be helpful to all.
Thanks again!
Again, I'll take any bore size slide measurements and hopefully this will be helpful to all.
Thanks again!
Dave
2020ish? Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
2020ish? Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Just as an aside to this BAC have a Besson model 940 on Ebay at the moment.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Besson-BE940 ... SwftNck9yu
.500" bore horn, interchangeable leadpipes , and a wide slide (80mm between outer slide legs) straight out of the factory ! Bell is angled further away from the slide than on most horns .
This model was developed with Gene Smith who was lead with Woody Herman and is a great blowing horn, I've been playing on one for may be a year now and love it.
Similar in weight to a King 'Jiggs' 2B so you're not gonna' play Bruckner on it but great alternative for jazz/ big band for those like me, who need the extra neck clearance.
Sadly Besson was going through the begging of the end when this horn came out so they're not that plentiful.
I really can't understand why no other manufacturer has gone down this route of a wider slide on small trombones as it's seems to be a problem for many people.
BellEnd
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Besson-BE940 ... SwftNck9yu
.500" bore horn, interchangeable leadpipes , and a wide slide (80mm between outer slide legs) straight out of the factory ! Bell is angled further away from the slide than on most horns .
This model was developed with Gene Smith who was lead with Woody Herman and is a great blowing horn, I've been playing on one for may be a year now and love it.
Similar in weight to a King 'Jiggs' 2B so you're not gonna' play Bruckner on it but great alternative for jazz/ big band for those like me, who need the extra neck clearance.
Sadly Besson was going through the begging of the end when this horn came out so they're not that plentiful.
I really can't understand why no other manufacturer has gone down this route of a wider slide on small trombones as it's seems to be a problem for many people.
BellEnd
-
- Posts: 1015
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 pm
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Well, I know one manufacturer that will offer it in the not too distant future...
☺
☺
Matthew Walker
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC, Jackson, Wisconsin.
Former Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC, Jackson, Wisconsin.
Former Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
That's great !hornbuilder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 am Well, I know one manufacturer that will offer it in the not too distant future...
☺
Do you hand bend stuff or are you blowing it?
BellEnd
- Matt K
- Verified
- Posts: 4240
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
We do have a Wiki but when we changed servers I forgot to move it as it was not utilized very much and I haven't had time to re-implement it. Its on my to-do list but we're fighting the spam issue. In the mean-time the best alternative to make sure it stays somewhere that is archived (which this site should be at places like archive.org), is to make a thread, which I've done here:
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10924
If you post more measurements, I'll add them there as time permits.
I'm very excited to hear about M&W possibly offering these crooks too!
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10924
If you post more measurements, I'll add them there as time permits.
I'm very excited to hear about M&W possibly offering these crooks too!
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
bellend wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:01 amHi ,hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:18 am
Well, BAC bought Kanstul's stuff, I'd bet that the tooling used is the tooling DJ is talking about. Bellend, you wouldn't mind telling us how much you are paying for this crook, would you? I paid $65 for a crook that appears to be from the same tool 3 years ago from DJ.
I'm paying $355 which I know is a lot but this will be a custom one off piece which means fabricating a former to make the specific shape I'm after.
Fingers crossed.
BellEnd
Just a quick update , as of today I have cancelled my order with BAC as they just kept jerking me about.
Best American Craftsmen???
If that's the best there is, god help us......... f*****g useless !!!!!
BellEnd
BellEnd
-
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
- Location: Deep in the Ozarks of Missouri
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
======
Just a quick update , as of today I have cancelled my order with BAC as they just kept jerking me about.
Best American Craftsmen???
If that's the best there is, god help us......... f*****g useless !!!!!
BellEnd
BellEnd
Hardly. There's plenty of great American craftsmen in just about any field you can think of. And I imagine it's the same in your country too. As for BAC.........Well..........
======
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
-
- Posts: 1127
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm
- Location: Detroit area
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I got a wide crook from Ben Hannson for a custom Shires .508 bore slide. He and DJ are the only people I've heard of who have them. So far. I don't know if Ben still makes them - this was several years ago for me.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”
- Thelonious Monk
- Thelonious Monk
-
- Posts: 1127
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm
- Location: Detroit area
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I remember mentioning my custom slide to you guys when my friend and I were checking out your excellent horns at Fort Myer earlier this year.hornbuilder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 am Well, I know one manufacturer that will offer it in the not too distant future...
☺
IMHO the same concern as others noted above also applies to alto trombones.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”
- Thelonious Monk
- Thelonious Monk
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
AndrewMeronek wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:43 am I got a wide crook from Ben Hannson for a custom Shires .508 bore slide. He and DJ are the only people I've heard of who have them. So far. I don't know if Ben still makes them - this was several years ago for me.
I have one of those which were marketed as 'wide glide' bows, I got mine from DJ.
It is very nicely made and finished and it was also reasonably priced.
To my mind sadly the bore of it was too large which had a pretty big effect on the blow of most horns and not in a good way.
BellEnd
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
-
- Posts: 1127
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm
- Location: Detroit area
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I really like how mine blows. More open than other small bore horns, so I feel more control over dynamics. I also get an interesting, different feeling control over tone in terms of having a small-bore 'bite' to articulation while still being able to 'warm up' the sound more like with larger bore horns. It's specifically a lightweight nickel-tube slide; specs in my profile. Without playing on other wide crooks, I can't say if that's the bore size or simply the change in crook shape.bellend wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:21 am I have one of those which were marketed as 'wide glide' bows, I got mine from DJ.
It is very nicely made and finished and it was also reasonably priced.
To my mind sadly the bore of it was too large which had a pretty big effect on the blow of most horns and not in a good way.
BellEnd
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”
- Thelonious Monk
- Thelonious Monk
-
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:14 am
- Location: UK
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I'm sure Tom at Rath's could make you one easily for much cheaper
BEC ...... Best English Craftsmen.
- bellend
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
-
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:14 am
- Location: UK
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Your loss!
-
- Posts: 631
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:44 am
- Location: Rochester Michigan North of Detroit.
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
When I bought my Edwards small bore I considered a wider slide. Edwards would have made it.
Edwards Sterling bell 525/547
Edwards brass bell 547/562
Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
Markus Leuchter Alto Trombone
Bass Bach 50 Bb/F/C dependent.
Cerveny oval euphonium
Full list in profile
Edwards brass bell 547/562
Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
Markus Leuchter Alto Trombone
Bass Bach 50 Bb/F/C dependent.
Cerveny oval euphonium
Full list in profile
- FEWeathers
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:36 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Conn 30H slide width? It's about the same as an Olds Super slide.
Conn
30H: 2.54"
6H: 2.74"
Olds
Super: 2.52"
Standard: 2.53"
Recording: 2.80"
Conn
30H: 2.54"
6H: 2.74"
Olds
Super: 2.52"
Standard: 2.53"
Recording: 2.80"
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Conn 32h 2.60"
-
- Posts: 1610
- Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
See, these are the type of specifications that trombone makers really DO need to put on their horns, but never really do. I don't have a HUGE neck, but it's not a small one either, and my King 3B is probably the narrowest horn I can play. I also need to hold the slide almost parallel to the floor, and angle the bell out a bit more.
Regarding measurements, I think maybe the distance between the outer slide tubes might be best. Some instruments have pretty beefy cork barrels, which can make the inner slide brass smaller than it would be otherwise. And with the outer slide brace, there are the oversleeves to think about, whether they are soldered on or drawn-in.
Regarding measurements, I think maybe the distance between the outer slide tubes might be best. Some instruments have pretty beefy cork barrels, which can make the inner slide brass smaller than it would be otherwise. And with the outer slide brace, there are the oversleeves to think about, whether they are soldered on or drawn-in.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:35 pm
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I'm confirming ~2.8 for Olds Recording. I actually wound up with 2.81.
For my part, I've got a pretty wide neck, at 19-19.5" depending on the shirt manufacturer, and the Olds is pretty comfortable. I might enjoy a tiny bit of extra space between the outers, but it's fine as it is.
For my part, I've got a pretty wide neck, at 19-19.5" depending on the shirt manufacturer, and the Olds is pretty comfortable. I might enjoy a tiny bit of extra space between the outers, but it's fine as it is.
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
I play that Besson 940 with the wide slide (80mm), just like my Conn 78 and Yamaha 683G,width feels the same
I always had problems with narrow slides.
I used to bend my mouthpieces to a 15 degree angle, that helped.
But the Besson is so good playing and sounding for commercial/Jazz playing I sold my Kings, Raths and small Conns without hesitation.
I still wonder that they did not sell many of them (image problems?)..
This will be the last trombone I would sell if I had to (sorry for my grammar, hope you understand)
The slide is fast and the lead pipes really help to find a perfect blow.
I was told they were built in Germany by Kühnl and Hoyer or B&S...
I always had problems with narrow slides.
I used to bend my mouthpieces to a 15 degree angle, that helped.
But the Besson is so good playing and sounding for commercial/Jazz playing I sold my Kings, Raths and small Conns without hesitation.
I still wonder that they did not sell many of them (image problems?)..
This will be the last trombone I would sell if I had to (sorry for my grammar, hope you understand)
The slide is fast and the lead pipes really help to find a perfect blow.
I was told they were built in Germany by Kühnl and Hoyer or B&S...
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: Slide width for small bore bones
Yeah, that's what I was looking for. I was hoping it wouldn't be such an obscure (in the US anyway) horn. There are a couple here for sale, but it will cost me $1k to see how they play. I could customize an existing slide for that much.Andre1966tr wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:48 am I play that Besson 940 with the wide slide (80mm), just like my Conn 78 and Yamaha 683G,width feels the same
I always had problems with narrow slides.
Anyway, thanks for the info, it's useful to know there's something out there that plays well.